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Dirk Wollschläger (Giz)
Bewertung: - Abstimmungen: 0 (Abstimmen!) | Veröffentlicht am Montag, 29. April 2002 - 22:07 Uhr: |     |
Weiß jemand eigentlich wie die gesetzliche Lage bezügl. Einfuhr von Treibsätzen, überhaupt Modellraketenstarts usw. in Holland ausschaut? Habe nämlich vor ein Wochenende am Meer zu verbringen, und möchte natürlich nicht verhaftet werden! Viele Grüße Dirk |
   
Oliver Missbach [Sysop] (Oliver)
Bewertung: - Abstimmungen: 0 (Abstimmen!) | Veröffentlicht am Dienstag, 30. April 2002 - 11:27 Uhr: |     |
Nach Aussagen niederländischer Kollegen ist Modellraketenflug zwar offiziell nicht erlaubt, es besteht aber ein "Gentlemen Agreement" mit den Behörden. Die DRRA veranstaltet dort mehrmals im Jahr Modellraketen-Flugtage, außerdem werden u.a. von der TRA Niederlande auf Militärgeländen HPR-Flüge durchgeführt. Schau mal auf European Model Rocketry, dort gibt es unter Grundlagen/Regulierungen genauere Details! |
   
Harald Lutz (Haraldl)
Bewertung: - Abstimmungen: 0 (Abstimmen!) | Veröffentlicht am Dienstag, 30. April 2002 - 12:56 Uhr: |     |
Ich habe heute erneut bei der NAVRO, einen niederländischen Modellraketenverein über die Lage der Modellraketenbauer in Holland nachgefragt. Prompt bekam ich heute abend Antwort, die ich dem Forum nicht vorenthalten möchte. Hello Mr. Lutz, I'll introduce myself first: I am Pleun Punt, the webmaster of the NAVRO. The NAVRO is one of the four Dutch rocketry organistions in the Netherlands, but the only one which covers the full range of modelrockets, HPR and amateur rocketry (also called experimental rocketry). I have build 25+ modelrockets, 1 real HPR rocket and helped building several amateur rockets. The HPR one was launched today! A part from the NAVRO, their are DRRA (model rocketry), Tripoli the Netherlands (HPR) and NERO (amateur rocketry). I will now try to answer the question below, if I speak of us or our I mean the NAVRO: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harald Lutz" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:59 PM Subject: Some questions about rocketry at Netherland (please answer soon) > Ladies and gentlemen, > > as German model rocket builder > (http://home.t-online.de/home/RMT.EB...lutz1/index.htm) I have got several questions about rocketry in the > Netherlands: > 1. which are the strongest engines available in the Netherlands without a > permission (in Germany it is D7 - 3. There is a limit of 20g gun powder per > engine. For stronger engines which are nearly not available you need a license, > called T2 - license. This license is also required for clustering engines and > multi - staging rockets) PP: All types of modelrocketsmotors are availeble over here, up to D from Estes, up to G from AeroTech. Also availeble are HPR motors from H onwards. The Dutch amateurrocketgroups (NAVRO and NERO) have their own motor, we have our own Kalitrox motors. Clustering and staging is no problem, unless you break the altitude restrictions of the launch site. I have heared of a German group which launched rockets with hot water a year or five ago. Maybe the commercial American hybrid motors (like HyperTech) are legal in Germany. > 2. can I buy modell rocket engines as a tourist in the Netherlands? PP: Yes you can, but it is illegal. The Estes motors are legally seen as fireworks and thereby forbidden to be sold or to owned. You can get permission for it. Some shop which sell model airplanes, tanks etc. (I don't know the English word) also sell Estes rockets and models. Their is also a very good webshop: {http://www.cavemanrocketry.com/,http://www.cavemanrocketry.com/} > 3. may I launch as tourist modell rockets at the Netherlands? On which > special laws I must pay my attention if I want to launch a model rcket in Dutch? PP:The best way is to contact the Dutch modelrocketgroup DRRA {http://www.drra.nl/index_nl.html,http://www.drra.nl/index_nl.html}) and visit on of their launch days. You could also contact local authorities and try to get a launch site and day yourself. First you need approval of the owner of the site (for example the farmer), you need permission of the air traffic authorities for use of the airspace, you need permission the own and transport modelrocket motors, local authorities need to approve and also local police and the fire brigade. The airspace law is currently renewed and has special rocketry attachment!, this is however processed by the governament, so meanwhile no new permission are granted. The first option is easier I think. Also you could launch a small number of modelrockets at our bigger rockets (HPR and amateur) days. > 4. what is the biggest rocket your club ever launched? What was the greatest > height a rocket of your club ever reached? PP:The biggest I know of was a 13(!) Estes D12-5 cluster rocket called Ukkie (see NAVRO website), which was 3,6 meters long. It was build like a modelrocket but technicly it was a HPR rocket. It reached a shocking altitude of 80 meters(guessed). I partipated a bit in this one and I am participating in a 4m successor. The club altitude record is 3900 meters with a amateurrocket called N13, thereby also breaking the sound barrier. > 5. does your club own an own launch areal? If yes, where? PP: We do not own a site as such, but we are twice a year guests at a military artillery shooting range: ASK 't Harde near Zwolle, where we orginise our big rocket launches. We did have had permission to fly modelrocket from sportsfields and farms, but at these sites houses have been build. When the airspace laws have been approved we will try to get a modelrocket site again. > 6. Which was the greatest height a rocket ever launched after World War II > in the Netherlands ever reached? (In Germany these were the three stage > rockets of the "Berthold - Seliger - Gesellschaft" launched 1963/1964 at the area > of Cuxhaven. They reached heights of more then 100 kilometres. Look at my > articles about post - war rocketry in Germany > on: > PP: The heigest altitude is either the ealier mention N13 or a amateur rocket of the NERO. Military rockets: V-2 have been launch from the Den Haag area. The Dutch military have had Honest Johns and Nike Ajax and Hercules rockets, and today they use Hawk and Patriots. > 7. Were there ever ( civil) research rockets launched at the Netherlands > (e.g. from the islands of North Dutch). If yes, which types? > (For Germany you will find the answer in the upper mentioned articles!) PP: I do not know much about Dutch Rocketry history, but what I do know I will tell you. I know of small research rockets late in the fifties launched mainly from Texel (the largest of the nothren islands), the obscure 1959 book which mentions this does not state altitude but I guess it not more than 2 km. I think I have heared that later from the ESTEC (ESA's testing agency) site rockets have been launched, this site is along the coast, north of Den Haag. At this site also the Space Expo, an ESA related museum. At this museum I have seen a Dutch probe (wrong word) rocket, which must have reached atleast 80km, but I am not sure about this. > 8. Did some professional societies ever develop rockets in the Netherlands? PP: There is own very large organisation.... The Misistry of Defence, but apart of that non. > 9. After 1964 rocket launches at the area of Cuxhaven were not allowed any > more. In the "Herrmann - Oberth - Museum" in Feucht near Nuremburg was told > me, that after 1964 the "Herrmann - Oberth - Gesellschaft" and the "Berthold - > Seliger - Gesellschaft" went for launching into the Netherlands. Is this > correct? Do you have more informations? Where were the rockets launched? Which > types were launched and which heights were reached? PP: I was not aware of this, but they might have been at NERO launches (the NAVRO is really active since 1991). For more information you could contact NERO (http://www.nerorockets.org). > > Yours sincerely, > > Harald Lutz > > -- > GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. > http://www.gmx.net,http://www.gmx.net I hope you find my answer usefull. I also forward this mail to the secretary of the NARVO (you should have mailed it to him, info@navro.nl , as I am only a humble webmaster), so he or other NAVRO members can complete my information. If you have more questions feel free to ask me or the info@navro.nl guy (he's called Kees-Jan Groenendijk if you want to be nice to him). Greetings, Pleun Punt Eine ausführlichere Antwort sollte noch kommen, aber es wäre schon etwas erstaunlich, wenn einem in einem Land, in dem man Feuerwerksfabriken in Wohngebieten errichten darf und in den es sehr viele illegale Rundfunksender (die man manchmal nachts am oberen Ende des Mittelwellenbandes, also auf Frequenzen um ca. 1600 kHz, auch in Süddeutschland empfangen kann) gibt, große Schwierigkeiten beim Start von Modellraketen hätte! |
   
Oliver Missbach [Sysop] (Oliver)
Bewertung: - Abstimmungen: 0 (Abstimmen!) | Veröffentlicht am Dienstag, 30. April 2002 - 13:12 Uhr: |     |
Danke Harald! Die Info auf EMR stammt direkt von der DRRA und deckt sich auch mit den Infos von der NAVRO. Kurzgefasst läuft es wohl darauf hinaus: Startest Du in den Niederlanden auf einem offiziellen Launch, wirst Du kaum Probleme haben. Für Einzelstarts wirds schwieriger, da mußt Du bei den Behörden eine Bewilligung für Feuerwerk beantragen, da die Motoren offizell so nicht frei erhältlich sind (wohl aber durch das "Agreement" quasi frei vertrieben werden). |
   
Dirk Wollschläger (Giz)
Bewertung: - Abstimmungen: 0 (Abstimmen!) | Veröffentlicht am Dienstag, 30. April 2002 - 13:28 Uhr: |     |
Hey, danke Oliver, hab´s gefunden! Aber so richtig hilft mir das auch nicht weiter. Generell ist es also verboten aber keiner weiß, ob Modellraketen nicht vielleicht als "pyrothechnical devices" gelten, die wiederum erlaubt sind? Grr! Schade, hatte mich schon gefreut! :-( Viele Grüße, Dirk |
   
Rainer de Raedt (Dr380)
Bewertung: - Abstimmungen: 0 (Abstimmen!) | Veröffentlicht am Dienstag, 30. April 2002 - 16:51 Uhr: |     |
Freue Dich ruhig weiter, Dirk, ich habe gerüchteweise läuten hören, dass Jemand aus Deiner nächsten Umgebung in den Osterferien in den Niederlanden Urlaub machte, gemütlich und problemlos bei Caveman in Leiden Motoren à la D ++ einkaufte und auch dort in NL seine Raketen startete. Der Import nach hier wäre allerdings wohl nicht gestattet. Soll zwar nicht zur Nachahmung auffordern, aber wie Harald Lutz schon richtig schrieb, in NL ist Vieles stillschweigend geduldet und die Pommes sind besonders lecker.
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